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	<title>Comments for Disaster Management</title>
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		<title>Comment on Public Health / Emergency Management Collaboration by David Hancock</title>
		<link>http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/public-health-emergency-management-collaboration/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/?p=22#comment-48</guid>
		<description>In reading this posting and the earlier one on ICS, I have some thoughts that I would like to share.  

First, I have always thought that the emergency services community, at least here in North Carolina, has done one of two things with ICS, either paid &quot;lip service&quot; to the concept, or gone so far over the edge with it that the method superceded the mission.  There has to be a balance.

I&#039;ve been doing quite a bit of reseach on ICS lately to complement a browser based application that I&#039;m building.  What blew me out of the water is that the Hospital Incident Command System (HICS) is so much better detailed and formalized than any guidance that we have received from FEMA.  They have their forms modified and finalized.  The FEMA forms (FEMA 502-2) are still in draft form (as of July 3, 2008) from what I have found online.  The HICS system has formalized Job Action Sheets that guide the users in their roles and responsibilities in four phases:

Immediate (0-2 Hours into event)
Intermediate (2-12 Hours)
Extended (12+ Hours)
Demobilization/System Recovery

Why is it that we, emergency management, the early adopters of ICS, still using ICS-209 forms asking us how many dozers we have and what kind of fuel is burning or available to burn?

Maybe we need to take a step back, have a little humility, and learn a little something from the public health people when it comes to ICS.  The reason that they are &quot;running&quot; with this is because they have embraced ICS more fully than those in the emergency services community have.  There is a world of difference between NIMS and the Brunacini model.  One is all exclusive to fire and the other should be all inclusive, but still has a wildland fire look and feel.

I can tell you from practical experience that the health deparment folks are much more open and willing to work with you in the EOC and exercises.  They don&#039;t feel that their turf is going to be overshadowed by an emergency management type which is where the problem exists with our current emergency services community.  I have developed a good rapport with my health department and, to be honest, at this point, I&#039;d rather have them in my EOC than most of the other local responders.  They have the willingness to work with you and they aren&#039;t worried that our office is going to take any of their responsibilities away from them.  As usual, anyone could read between the lines and see that a large part of the problem is that our local emergency services responders are reluctant to leave their egos at the door.

I do believe as you do, that there had better be some realtionships fostered between the EM folks and the Public Health community.  I&#039;m glad that I used them in an exercise with the 42nd earlier this year and I believe that it&#039;ll be ok here in the hills.

David Hancock
Watauga Co. FM/EM
C3 Applications</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reading this posting and the earlier one on ICS, I have some thoughts that I would like to share.  </p>
<p>First, I have always thought that the emergency services community, at least here in North Carolina, has done one of two things with ICS, either paid &#8220;lip service&#8221; to the concept, or gone so far over the edge with it that the method superceded the mission.  There has to be a balance.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been doing quite a bit of reseach on ICS lately to complement a browser based application that I&#8217;m building.  What blew me out of the water is that the Hospital Incident Command System (HICS) is so much better detailed and formalized than any guidance that we have received from FEMA.  They have their forms modified and finalized.  The FEMA forms (FEMA 502-2) are still in draft form (as of July 3, 2008) from what I have found online.  The HICS system has formalized Job Action Sheets that guide the users in their roles and responsibilities in four phases:</p>
<p>Immediate (0-2 Hours into event)<br />
Intermediate (2-12 Hours)<br />
Extended (12+ Hours)<br />
Demobilization/System Recovery</p>
<p>Why is it that we, emergency management, the early adopters of ICS, still using ICS-209 forms asking us how many dozers we have and what kind of fuel is burning or available to burn?</p>
<p>Maybe we need to take a step back, have a little humility, and learn a little something from the public health people when it comes to ICS.  The reason that they are &#8220;running&#8221; with this is because they have embraced ICS more fully than those in the emergency services community have.  There is a world of difference between NIMS and the Brunacini model.  One is all exclusive to fire and the other should be all inclusive, but still has a wildland fire look and feel.</p>
<p>I can tell you from practical experience that the health deparment folks are much more open and willing to work with you in the EOC and exercises.  They don&#8217;t feel that their turf is going to be overshadowed by an emergency management type which is where the problem exists with our current emergency services community.  I have developed a good rapport with my health department and, to be honest, at this point, I&#8217;d rather have them in my EOC than most of the other local responders.  They have the willingness to work with you and they aren&#8217;t worried that our office is going to take any of their responsibilities away from them.  As usual, anyone could read between the lines and see that a large part of the problem is that our local emergency services responders are reluctant to leave their egos at the door.</p>
<p>I do believe as you do, that there had better be some realtionships fostered between the EM folks and the Public Health community.  I&#8217;m glad that I used them in an exercise with the 42nd earlier this year and I believe that it&#8217;ll be ok here in the hills.</p>
<p>David Hancock<br />
Watauga Co. FM/EM<br />
C3 Applications</p>
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		<title>Comment on Disaster Management &#8212; Future Challenges by $columns[1]</title>
		<link>http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/disaster-management-future-challenges/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>$columns[1]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/disaster-management-future-challenges/#comment-42</guid>
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		<title>Comment on Disaster Management&#8211;What&#8217;s in a Name? by $columns[1]</title>
		<link>http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/disaster-management-whats-in-a-name/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>$columns[1]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 09:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/disaster-management-whats-in-a-name/#comment-41</guid>
		<description>$columns[4]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$columns[4]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Disaster Management&#8211;What&#8217;s in a Name? by Clint Osborn</title>
		<link>http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/disaster-management-whats-in-a-name/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Osborn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 19:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/disaster-management-whats-in-a-name/#comment-8</guid>
		<description>The logical followup to this post is what is the difference between Emergency Management and Disaster Management.  If you are using a cost driver model, then what is the cost trigger that defines an event as a disaster.  For example, nobody will argue with Katrina as a disaster, but is 9/11?  Is the Virginia Tech Incident?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The logical followup to this post is what is the difference between Emergency Management and Disaster Management.  If you are using a cost driver model, then what is the cost trigger that defines an event as a disaster.  For example, nobody will argue with Katrina as a disaster, but is 9/11?  Is the Virginia Tech Incident?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Some Initial “Lessons Learned’ from California Wildfires by Clint Osborn</title>
		<link>http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/some-initial-%e2%80%9clessons-learned%e2%80%99-from-california-wildfires/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint Osborn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 19:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/some-initial-%e2%80%9clessons-learned%e2%80%99-from-california-wildfires/#comment-7</guid>
		<description>To follow up about creating a media plan as well as how to guarantee that the media never trusts you again:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1677166,00.html
&amp;
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1670823,00.html

Bill, your point about the media being disaster hungry is evident, but the underlying point here is that the media is also one of the fastest learning sectors of society.  Case in point.  In the last 6 months, Time magazine has had at least 3 cover articles on events and circumstances that we would consider Emergency Management or Disaster Management.  And now they aren&#039;t just asking are you training...how are you training, who is involved, what are the environmental conditions?

Takeaway point: Invite the media to cover and to simulate in your training.  They might just be more forgiving for getting to see how hard you really are working and training.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To follow up about creating a media plan as well as how to guarantee that the media never trusts you again:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1677166,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1677166,00.html</a><br />
&amp;<br />
<a href="http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1670823,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1670823,00.html</a></p>
<p>Bill, your point about the media being disaster hungry is evident, but the underlying point here is that the media is also one of the fastest learning sectors of society.  Case in point.  In the last 6 months, Time magazine has had at least 3 cover articles on events and circumstances that we would consider Emergency Management or Disaster Management.  And now they aren&#8217;t just asking are you training&#8230;how are you training, who is involved, what are the environmental conditions?</p>
<p>Takeaway point: Invite the media to cover and to simulate in your training.  They might just be more forgiving for getting to see how hard you really are working and training.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Higher Education in Disaster Management by genep</title>
		<link>http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/higher-education-in-disaster-management/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>genep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managingdisasters.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/higher-education-in-disaster-management/#comment-2</guid>
		<description>These comments make a lot of sense to me, even for someone who is not very familiar with the territory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These comments make a lot of sense to me, even for someone who is not very familiar with the territory.</p>
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